Gaining Tax Advantages For Student Athletes and Entrepeneurs

Yeah, it’s just like any athlete, your career money most of the time is front-loaded early on in your age versus somebody like me who’s earned it over my lifetime, 10, 20 plus years. Like most people,   athletes are the opposite. They earn it mostly early on.

And so,   we try to educate and promote to save money.   we’re always like just save something,   whether it’s a hundred dollars, whether it’s maxing out an IRA, individual retirement account annually.   if you have a LLC and you got to, you want to max out more money based off your cashflow, is it a SEP IRA, which is with a small business, or maybe we set up a 401k and max that out up to like 68k is,   around the limit.

So just depending on your cashflow, depending on how much you want to put away, but save something. Your relationship with money matters. I’m Michelle Perkins, and this is the Money & You podcast, where I will be breaking down your relationship with money, offering tough love money tips, and a money dating plan that will focus on lifting the barriers to success to help pave the way for better money practices and increased wealth.

It’s time to take control to live a limit-free life. It starts today. Hello, hello, and welcome to the Money & You show.

I’m Michelle Perkins, your host, so excited to have you here today and to have a fabulous guest. Again, we’ve done a lot of episodes and I’m super excited that we’re going to continue to talk about something different that we haven’t talked about. I keep thinking we’ll run out, but we don’t run out of topics.

So I have a fabulous guest today who is going to be talking, a CPA. He’s going to be talking about many things related to relationship with money, taxes, but in particular, he has a specialty area that not many people are involved in, and that is tax planning for student athletes. So I want to get into that, among other things, with him.

And before we start, I’m going to let you know a little about Chase Insogna.

Chase has a passion for both athletics and entrepreneurship. Chase has established himself as an expert in name-image likeness, NIL deals, guiding student-athletes through the complexities of tax implications and wealth-building strategies.

Insogna CPA’s approach goes beyond traditional accounting practices by focusing on the unique needs of student-athletes, Insogna ensures that they are not just compliant with tax laws, but also strategically positioned to grow their wealth while building their careers on or off the field. Chase and his firm, Insogna CPA, are known for providing personalized, insightful, and proactive financial advice tailored to the unique needs of its clients. Chase has always been passionate about sports and helping young athletes succeed both on and off the field, and that’s why Insogna CPA focuses on helping student-athletes understand and optimize their finances through NIL deals, ensuring they can build a strong financial foundation while pursuing their passion.

Chase’s expertise and commitment to his clients have made him a sought-after guest and speaker on topics related to NIL deals, tax planning, and financial management for student-athletes. Chase, welcome. Thank you for having me.

Yeah, thank you for being here. Like I said, I’m very excited to talk to you. There’s some interesting information I think you’ll bring to the audience and to the show that we haven’t touched on yet, so that’s exciting to me.

And why don’t you give us a little background about how you ended up where you are today? Yeah, I’ve always been entrepreneurial the last 25-ish years now.   I’ve always helped small businesses, helped out with taxes.   I just didn’t know.

I always wanted to own my own business, just didn’t know what it was at the time. And so, I went into corporate accounting, got my CPA license in 2009. I started this firm in 2011 and,   bought a bookkeeping firm to kind of start it, but wouldn’t recommend doing that.

And then have,   growing it from there,   spent the first two years not paying myself anything. So,   basically bootstrapping and today,   12 plus years later, we’re 22 employees,   we grow double digits annually. And our ultimate goal is just to help small business owners mainly as our main focus,   tax plan, advise, coach, and just make sure we’re on track for December 31st.

That’s why we keep track of accounting on a monthly basis. But at the end of the day, we’re just trying to make sure we’re helping business owners, just here to help. And communication is a big thing for us,   responding every one to three business days, not waiting weeks or months to get back to somebody.

And we’re here all year long. So, but,   as you mentioned, NIL and,   student-athletes kind of the same approach for us. It’s,   small business because the athlete is their business when they’re making 1099 self-employed income.

And so we approach it the same way and just try to educate people and make sure they’re avoiding unnecessary payroll tax and trying to save money where they can. Great. Thank you.

And I want you maybe to clarify for people a little more about the NIL deal and how that is, in fact, a business for people who might not be familiar. Yeah. So, you have athletes,   listening or,   parents on the phone,   it’s the name and image likeness.

And,   you’ve seen articles out there with,   you’ve got Deion Sanders in Colorado and his kids making, I think his kid made like two or three million. You’ve got Manning, Peyton Manning, famous quarterback and Eli Manning, their nephew is at University of Texas this past year. He made like three plus million just in NIL sponsorship deals.

So, those are the two big names. But go down the line and you’ve got all other athletes. We’re talking across the board, whether they’re in swimming,   soccer, whatever sport may be, there’s all these NIL deals coming to these players now, which is great.

However, most of them, like in the community I grew up in, underserved East Houston, are not used to having self-employed income for the most part, or at least knowing how to find the right resources. And so,   at this stage in my life, I’m just trying to help people,   and educate them and,   at least let the parents know like you need to find qualified resources. But the kids too,   when you’re making self-employed income, you are the CEO of your own business.

And you need to have resources in that circle. You’ve got attorney, financial advisor, maybe insurance person, CPA, like ourselves, manager,   agent,   whatever it may be. But just like any business owner has all the resources in their circle, same thing for the players.

And that’s what we’re trying to out here to try to educate people with. Yeah, that’s fantastic. And I really,   from a standpoint of your relationship with money, I think that’s a big perspective shift for people because,   you’re getting this money as a student, you’re not necessarily thinking of yourself as a business owner, and nor would you,   kind of treat your money and your finances that way.

So I think that’s a really great light to shine onto this situation for people. I’m sure that’s missed by many if they’re not kind of told that. Yeah, and the biggest thing is,   1099s are coming out,   soon if you haven’t already got one.

If you work self-employed income, most of these NIL deals are self-employed income. And if you haven’t been saving for taxes, and you spent all of your money, this is what we’re trying to come out here and educate,   the audience with that you need to make sure and save some money.   it depends on what state you live in, city you’re from, but in general, a rough number is like 30%.

So make 100 bucks, put 30 in a savings account, wait till tax day, see how it shakes out is what,   general advice is. But, but   what we don’t want to happen and what we’re trying to help these young kids with,   when they get all this money in their pocket, I mean,   we’re all early 18 year olds, 20 year olds,   and had a bunch of, I mean, I didn’t have that much money, but I would have liked to. And I know I would have spent it on some stuff and not cared about taxes either.

But what we don’t want is kids to,   spend all that money and then hope for new NIL money to pay the taxes on the money they spent. And that debt cycle is dangerous, because you never know when it’s going to stop. And, you want to make sure you’re ahead of the curve.

So you’re financially safe in the future, and don’t have to worry about the IRS chasing you down. Yeah, that’s so important. And everything you’re saying applies to every other business owner as well.

It’s just that I think there’s kind of the idea that the student athlete might be less aware of these things. But I think, as I’m listening, I’m thinking a lot of business owners do the exact same thing. And,   they’re spending their money hoping that something’s going to come in and help them pay their taxes at some point.

So, do you find the same? Yeah, many times. So,   we try to approach it where we’re advising clients and,   estimating taxes throughout the year,   what should you have reserved for paying estimated coupons, if they’re not good about saving their money,   at least being ahead of the curve, in addition to tax savings and tax planning. But,   paying taxes is never going away.

So, you don’t want to get in that vicious cycle of,   having to take out a loan or,   take a loan with the IRS and pay interest on money. I mean, don’t live a lifestyle you can’t afford has always been my mantra. And,   reserve taxes and just pay it at the end of the day.

I mean, I don’t like to write the check either. No one does. But,   it’s life and I don’t want to be behind the curve.

Yeah, I think it’s such a great message. And it’s so important. And I think as business owners are operating in their business, there’s so many needs and so many places to put your money so that you can grow your business,   and it is it takes a fair amount of discipline to pull that money out and save it for taxes, quite honestly.

Any tips or tricks that that you use to help people be able to do this? Or if someone’s had trouble with it, because I think too, at the beginning, when you’re growing your business,   you might, you might not even know any taxes for a little while. And then all of a sudden, you get to a point where you are. And suddenly, that becomes an issue that you haven’t really had to deal with.

And so you have to,   I mean, it, sometimes it’s easy to understand that you have to do this, but the actual doing take some, some different habits and some different strategies. Yeah, for us, it depends on the client.   like, there’s kind of two ways to approach it, either you,   pay quarterly coupons that were generated with last year’s 1040 for this year, or,   you save the money, and you were estimating in real time monthly after we reconcile what your estimated tax should be based off your effective rate from last year, and what your net profit is this year for small business.

  some people, some people don’t like to pay the penalty that they see on their return for not paying estimated quarterly taxes, it’s not required. A lot of people have the misnomer of I’m, I’m required to pay quarterly taxes, you’re not. I’m,   a lot of times I advise clients that are short on cash or the need the liquidity to,   put it in a savings account, treat it as a line of credit to yourself, and that in the penalty that you pay the IRS at the bottom, on that estimated tax penalty, which is very minimal, is basically the interest on your own line of credit.

That’s how I like to approach it with clients. And then,   other clients, the other half, just don’t want to have any penalty at all, so they,   pay it in the IRS on a quarterly basis. But,   multiple ways to approach it, but in general, like 25-30% is my, like, general,   percentage rule.

And,   if you’re just a sole proprietor,   and filing a Schedule C on your 1040, then,   stick with that kind of 25-30% rule, and you should be, you should be conservative enough. Yeah, okay. I love that.

And I do think that is just one of those habits that you should start early on in your business.   even if you, even if you may not even have a tax,   a tax that you owe at the end of the year, it’s just a great habit to be in. So, what else do you help these athletes with in terms of just gaining a financial advantage when they have all this new money? Yeah,   it’s just like any athlete, your career money most of the time is front-loaded early on in your age versus somebody like me, who’s earned it over my lifetime, 10-20 plus years.

Like most people,   athletes are the opposite. They earn it mostly early on. And so,   we try to educate and promote to save money.

  we’re always like, just save something,   whether it’s $100, whether it’s maxing out an IRA, individual retirement account annually.   if you have an LLC and you got to, you want to max out more money based off your cash flow, is it a SEP IRA, which is with a small business, or maybe we set up a 401k and max that out up to like 68k is,   around the limit. So, just depending on your cash flow, depending on how much you want to put away, but save something,   and that’s what we try to promote with younger athletes.

And,   when I was that age too, I didn’t think about retirement accounts,   I’m like, I’m never going to get this money. But,   when you put away in a retirement account, so you can take it out for,   if you have a hardship event, or some of them, you want to buy a house, you can take out a certain amount with no tax penalty. So, there’s, there is flexibility in these accounts sometimes.

But,   I don’t, I’m not one of these like super savers, where you gotta put every money, every penny away,   it’s like, I still want to enjoy life too, I get it.   I, I don’t save all of my money, I,   still want to get out there and experience things and enjoy life too. But,   I try to put money in buckets along the way.

So, at the end of the rope,   when I need it, or I,   don’t want to work till I’m 70, then,   I have this money to go back to. And,   a lot of small business owners out there on this,   on your channel that,   think they’re going to sell their business. I mean, Forbes estimates 85% of small businesses never sell.

So, just think about that. I mean, are you,   at one of the 85%? Are you one of the lucky 15% that get to sell it to somebody else? For me, my philosophy is always not counted on selling. So, at the end of the rope, for me, I’m saving along the way.

And,   whenever I decide to retire, then,   I have that bucket of money that I can fall back on and not have to worry about,   selling my business and hoping I get this number to live on going forward. Yeah, that’s a really interesting point. And I spent the last three days in a conference on scaling your business, and some of it was on exiting.

I think I didn’t, that statistic is really interesting to me. Any particular reasons why businesses don’t sell? I mean, I can think of a couple. I mean, one being if the business is too much about you, then there isn’t much of a business to sell.

But what are you seeing out there that happens with clients or people that you see that kind of put your business in a category of unsellable? It’s generally a big part of it is that,   it’s just you. Nobody’s wanting to buy a just you business, because that’s hard to transition.   if you have like a client base like us,   and a one owner CPA firm, like that’s tough, because they’ve only just been working with that one person.

And,   I come in and let’s say I buy the book of business,   we have a totally different business model, communication changes, and people change, and people don’t like change. So then they go looking,   around to something else. So then I’ve just bought a book that’s not worth anything, pretty basically.

So a lot of that,   a lot of that goes on. And I would say that’s probably the biggest, I mean, in my opinion, probably the biggest part. And then also just structure,   how’s the business? Does it is it self sufficient? Is it running itself?   you’ve got obviously historical sales and numbers to play into it.

And   how easy can somebody step in and take over? Usually is the biggest thing. Yeah, yeah, very interesting. I do think people often assume that that will be part of their retirement.

So a good thing to think about it. I mean, if that’s what somebody wants, they can,   they can change things so that that could work out for them. But it is definitely a point to, to prepare for early on most of the people that I’ve talked to, or heard speak about selling their business, they went into business with the thought that they would ultimately sell it.

And that’s a good way to do it. Because as you create along the way, you always have that kind of outcome in mind. But yeah, very interesting.

So let’s get back to a little bit about let’s, let’s focus on the athletes for a minute, just because I think that’s a great highlight to understand people’s relationship with money. And I think that’s a,   that’s a very unique position to be in to go from maybe not having any money to some, all of a sudden,   you’re receiving a lot of money. What do you see in terms of people’s ability just to kind of handle that? Well, I think it’s just kind of educating and making sure they understand,   what to keep track of what to be aware of.

I mean, the first step is structure, right? Are you making enough money to,   set up an LLC, maybe make an S Corp election with the IRS to save to avoid unnecessary payroll taxes. That’s the first thing we’re looking at. Second thing is keeping track of expenses, just like business owners.

  if you’re making an IO money,   you’re going to events that maybe are not covered. You’re getting training. You’re getting, you’ve got a cell phone, maybe you pay for, maybe you drove somewhere that’s mileage, or you flew somewhere that’s airfare, but keeping track of this stuff throughout the year in a dedicated checking account or credit card.

So that way you can download it come tax time. That’s the second step. And then from there, it’s,   figuring out how much you’ve made net profit after expenses and determining what that advice should be.

  if you’re,   the manning of the group and making 3 million as a third string quarterback last year, or,   you’re Sanders in Colorado where,   your father obviously has resources because he had a whole career and made money. Like those kids have the resources and they know where to go to take care of it.   a lot of these, a lot of these student athletes,   they’re making 5,000 or they’re making a 50 or a hundred plus.

  they didn’t, they don’t have parents like me who knew where to go or where to get these resources to help them. So,   for us, it’s just kind of, for me, it’s just kind of coming out here, like educating, like if you’re making more than 50, 60K after expenses, then you probably should consider setting up an LLC, limited liability company. And then from there,   do you need to make an S-corp election with the IRS to avoid unnecessary payroll taxes? So like a perfect example is just kind of in general, how he gives, let’s just say you made a hundred thousand dollars profit after expenses.

You’re going to pay 15.3% self-employed taxes on that money at the very bottom of your 1040 returns, but you’ve got adjusted gross income. Then you calculate your federal taxes. Then you add in the 15.3 self-employment tax and your federal tax and the self-employment tax combined is what you owe the IRS.

So you take that same money and you roll it into an LLC S-corp. Now the IRS only requires you to pay a quote reasonable salary on that 100K. Reasonable on that is 40, 45%.

We believe the IRS has always accepted. So let’s call it 40. And the Delta of tax savings is the unnecessary FICA payroll taxes that you’re not paying on that money.

And that Delta of tax savings is around nine or $10,000 depending on where you live. So why file as a sole proprietor on your personal 1040 taxes and pay nine or $10,000 to the government when you can have this structure and avoid that money? Now, obviously you’ve got a separate business return, probably need to set up payroll. So you’ve got some overhead, but you’re netting still thousands of dollars in tax savings, even if you’re paying somebody like us, a CPA to file the extra business return.

So that’s in general,   what we’re,   educating small business owners when we have conversations with them daily.   when we’re talking to student athletes and groups, that’s what we’re trying to educate. Just,   if you’re over that 50, 60K threshold, reach out,   get some resources because you’re just wasting money when you file your taxes, if you don’t.

Yeah, fantastic. And it does, it does take, I think, joining forces with somebody like you to figure this stuff out. So I think it’s, I think for everybody,   I’m surprised how many small business owners I know who actually don’t have the team around them, the financial team that they need.

And they either think they’re not earning enough yet or whatever it is. But I think having people who can advise you in the way that you’re talking about is the way to get there. So there’s, it’s interesting that people put off kind of bringing in the people that can really,   help them to save money and grow money.

Yeah. And a big number of thing we try to promote too is like licensed versus unlicensed.   there’s a lot of bookkeepers and tax preparers out there that aren’t licensed.

And,   if you’re, if you have a bookkeeper and you have a tax person in general, they’re not talking to each other. So,   that you can get your bookkeeping done, but then come tax time, the person’s like, well, you should have did this last year.   you could have saved some money.

These two are never incentivized to talk to each other. That’s why when I started my business, I,   brought this in house and one umbrella so that we could properly tax plan and be on track for a year and did not avoid this conversation. But,   working with licensed people like licensed CPAs, obviously I’m biased,   and trying to educate the market because if you have a tax preparer that,   most people don’t realize you can pay $60 to the IRS, be 18 years old, and now you’re a professional tax preparer.

It takes no education. It takes no experience. You can just pull up your shingle and now you’re filing taxes.

If that, if they file it wrong and you get audited, who are you going to blame? No one. There’s nobody to go to because they’re unlicensed. They probably disappeared.

Probably not in business anymore.   these people that are ultra aggressive getting extra deductions or filing a bunch of credits to get more refund for you. That’s great until you get audited.

If you get caught, they’re not coming back on the person who prepared it. They’re coming back on you because it’s your return you signed. So, working with a licensed professional provides recourse and,   obviously we’re not going to do anything wrong and,   we’re going to protect our profession because I’m not going to do something ultra risky that just risks my whole business and ruins my career.

But,   if somebody is licensed and you have a complaint, you can always go to the state board and,   the licensed individual has to answer it. But it’s at least a line of recourse for people to go to when,   their accounting or their taxes are incorrect versus unlicensed, you have no recourse. So, it’s another thing we like to put out there because people don’t realize like what it takes to become a tax preparer, nothing, $60 and 18 years old versus,   why a firm like us might charge more because we have the professional liability you have to pay for,   insurance and board licensing and continuing education.

  it costs, you get what you pay for, as always my mantra when you’re working with licensed professionals versus unlicensed. Yeah, very interesting. That’s a great point.

I didn’t realize that how easy it was to be. I knew you didn’t have to be licensed, but I didn’t realize it was quite that simple to be a tax preparer. And yeah, that is, I mean, you’re almost better off just preparing yourself on TurboTax than going that route because at least you’re probably going to learn something along the way.

But that’s really interesting. Thank you for sharing that. And yeah, there is a lot of value and I loved what you said about the bookkeeper and the accountant and that goes for everybody,   the financial advisor, when they’re all, when nobody’s speaking to each other, that is a way to have some problems.

And,   I too have a bookkeeper who was referred by my CPA and the two of them get together before they ever even talked to me at the end of the year and it works out so much better. So, I think that’s a great suggestion. Yeah, it’s good.

It’s good they communicate with each other. Most don’t. Yeah, I know.

It’s true. I don’t know really why that is. It would work much better, it seems like, for everybody if they did, because then they’re just blaming each other all the time too.

So, anyway. Okay. So, what are some other potential tax pitfalls that you see people falling into? I mean, it’s almost tax time.

So, this is a great time to be having this conversation actually. Um, I mean, when it comes to pitfalls, I mean,   I mean, that’s so random and so general. I think the structure, again, is the first step we look at,   are you structured probably for tax purposes? And then you’ve got, obviously, the legal that we’re looking at from a tax perspective.

And then,   just keeping track throughout the year, are you paying yourself a reasonable salary?   you have a third party test we run with that. A lot of people overpay themselves a W-2 when they’re in S-corp. And then you’re,   you’re not getting as much of a QBI deduction on your 1040.

It’s complicated, but it’s like a three part calculation. But it’s a qualified business income deduction. And it’s based off your K-1 net profit,   rolling over from your S-corp K-1.

So, you want your profits to be more than your W-2 from your own S-corp. So, that’s something we look at too. And then just keeping track of expenses properly.

  we see a lot of times we get books and people are expensing a lot of personal items.   we’re not putting our name on that and filing that return. Again, recourse as a licensed CPA.

  a lot of times when they’re calculating their net profit, they’re including maybe estimated taxes they paid. That’s not a deduction. So you back that out.

What is your actual net profit that we need to be tax planning around? So just making sure you have clean books is the third thing. And in order to properly advise and plan and coach what December 31st should look like for you when year end happens. Yeah.

And what do you recommend for people in terms of tax planning? I mean, should people be showing up in your office in August or September? Or what’s the best approach for that? So you don’t just get to the end of the year and you haven’t had a conversation. Yeah. I mean, for our clients, we’re generally keeping track of it monthly.

I mean, QuickBooks Online is what we use here.   so we’re keeping track of their accounting. And then that allows us to have the numbers in order to advise and tax plan around on a real time basis.

  some people do it on their own and they want to check in with somebody. That’s not really our model. But yes, certainly if you have a person that wants to do that,   reach out, I would at least say in the third quarter, early in the fourth quarter to give you enough time to set something up.

Third quarter, if you’re probably doing a 401k for yourself, I think October is usually the deadline for that. So,   you want to get that as soon as possible. But,   early in the year, some people might not know how the year is going to shake out.

So,   as long as you have an LLC set up and operating under the LLC, then we can treat the whole year as an LLC and make an S-Corp election later in the year. So,   you’d start blowing out of the water and summer Q3, Q4 rolls around and we have that ability to at least change how things are happening. But if you come to me now and you’re like, hey, I made a bunch of money last year as a sole proprietor, I can’t help you.

I mean, I can do your taxes, but I can’t help you save money as an S-Corp because you have to have the LLC set up in the same tax year that you made the money. So just being aware of that and like being proactive about it when you see yourself making again over that 50, 60K limit with net profit, that’s kind of our baseline to justify the cost of setting up an LLC and making an S-Corp election with that extra return and running payroll potentially. That’s where we get that number from.

Then if you’re crossing that line after expenses, then,   reach out to a CPA, talk about LLC, talk about S-Corp to help yourself save money. Okay. Okay.

That’s great. And so are there any things that people can do now to help out there,   be more strategic between now and April 15th or whatever the day is this year? Yeah, I would say,   if you had an LLC last year,   and you made a bunch of money, there’s still opportunity to make an S-Corp election. That return is due March 15th.

So clock’s ticking and to avoid a late filing penalty. And then,   by April 15th,   certainly if you want to, if you have the cash flow to do it, contribute to retirement. And sometimes you can do it filing an extension and then contribute.

But personal IRAs are due by April 15th. So if you’re just, if that’s all the cash flow you have, we’re at least advising to max that out as much as possible. A personal IRA, anybody can do as long as you made earned income or your spouse had earned income and maybe you live at home.

You can contribute, you can most of the time contribute too. So,   that’s something to keep in mind if you are just already putting it in a brokerage account or you have enough savings already built up,   at least try and look at maximizing the personal IRA first. Okay.

Okay. Great. Thank you.

And if people out there are listening and they have either a student athlete or,   they’re looking to the future and think this might be a possible thing for them. Do you help people all over the country? I know you’re in Texas, so. Yeah.

Yeah. We’re based in Austin, but my team’s all over the country. And,   California is our second largest state filing,   because they all moved to Austin.

And New York’s the third largest,   because we get a lot of East Coast people. So, yeah, we do taxes in all 50 states. Most people don’t know CPAs have reciprocity in all 50 states.

We can file all state returns. Unlike a financial advisor who has to be registered in each state or an attorney has to be registered in each state, CPAs do not. So even though we’re based in Texas, we can file any state return.

Okay. Okay. Fantastic.

So, yeah, any sort of final words around,   the topic of student athletes and just,   something you want to share with people? Yeah, I would just say,   if you’re processing that,   50, 60K threshold,   be proactive, reach out to a CPA professional, have a conversation about setting up an entity, whether it’s an LLC or Inc. Incorporated. And then talk about tax planning for 24.

See if there’s anything you can do for 23 if you’re still filing your taxes. And,   just try to stay proactive going forward, keep track of everything properly and avoid paying unnecessary payroll taxes to the IRS at the end of the day. Yeah, that’s great.

And I think it’s a really interesting kind of way to get thrown into the financial world. I mean, you’re focusing on your athletics, obviously, but suddenly if you are making some money from this, it really does put you in a place where you’re going to get educated fairly quickly if you decide you want that. And which is going to help you forever.

I mean,   all of what you’re talking about is so similar to what a small business owner is going to be looking at. So I think it’s actually a great little money education that you’re getting right from the get-go at an earlier age. So I think- Yeah, and these principles apply to, again, all small business, like you said.

  we have a large e-com, vertical, people selling online products. Any other small business, the same principles apply. So that’s why,   we’re trying to, because NIL is new and there’s not a lot of material out there.

So we’re just trying to, I’m just trying to help educate people.   we don’t really need the business from the NIL type. I mean, you’re trying to get tax business, but we’re certainly happy to help you if you want us to.

But just educating people to go find a licensed resource, CPA, to make sure you’re protected and making sure you’re avoiding financial mistakes and paying more taxes than you need to. Yeah, that’s fantastic. And I love any people who are sharing,   financial education out there because there is such a lack of education.

And I think that’s great that you’re willing to get out there and just talk about it and let people know because awareness is everything. Once you’re aware that something exists, you can pursue it. Yeah, I love that.

And I,   so people are finding you on podcasts. How else can people connect with you and chat with you? Yeah, feel free to visit our website insognacpa.com. It’s I-N-S-O-G-N-A-C-P-A.com. And one of my team members will read out to you,   have a conversation and,   see for the right fit, but,   at least help you guide in the right direction if that’s what you’re looking forward to. So,   we’re not trying to push people to do business with us.

  we only make an S Corp election and it makes financial sense. We don’t, we’re not recommending it if it doesn’t. And at the end of the day, we’re just trying to help educate and communicate with people.

Yeah, that’s great. And I think too, if you can find a CPA who can give you a broader financial kind of,   advice, not that you’re a financial advisor necessarily, but it sounds like you can help people strategize their financial lives in a little bit of a broader way, which I think is one of the big values of having a really good CPA on your team versus just do the taxes and then,   bye-bye. Yeah, we’re not a licensed financial advisor, but CPAs are allowed to have a conversation about financial advising without getting in trouble versus the other way around.

And so,   a lot of conversation I have, I manage my own portfolio, I have a lot of rental property, like, so,   I do it myself and I’m always, when I have a conversation with people, I’m putting them in my shoes. What would I do if I were them is how I’ve always approached my conversations and just offering them the advice that I would want if I were that person,   whether they take it or not,   that’s on them, I’m usually just kind of like, here it is, and,   take it or leave it. So that’s kind of my approach.

Yeah, really important. It’s really important to have somebody that you can bounce your,   financial ideas off of who has,   knowledge about this world. And so I think,   to me, people, when they’re, you’re just reminding me when people are looking for a CPA to have on their team, you want somebody who has that kind of broader ability to have these conversations and help you just plan your financial life together.

So, yeah, thank you. Okay, well, it’s been a pleasure. I really enjoyed our conversation.

And I think there was a lot of new information there for people, yet another aspect of the world of money that people may not have heard about, which I really like to bring that,   out into the light. So thank you and appreciate your time. And appreciate.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, no, it was a pleasure. And I love that you’re helping people in the way that you are.

So keep it up. That’s great. Thanks.

Okay. All right. And audience, thank you for being here today on the Money & You show.

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